A number of Christian clerics have been identified as being respected enough to lead a “sensible” conversation about same-sex relationships in St. Vincent and the Grenadines.
Prime Minister Ralph Gonsalves named them on Monday at a press conference at which, for the second time in a few years, he called for someone to lead a conversation on same-sex relationships in the country.
“You know, somebody with the authority of the Anglican Bishop; Reverend Adolph Davis, the Methodist Superintendent, Father Mike [of the Catholic Church], individually or in the Christian Council, a bishop in the Pentecostal Assembly of the West Indies, who is a very sensible and wise individual — Bishop Sonny Williams; a retired person like Dr. George Frederick from the ministry and they would have, I am sure, interesting perspectives to bring on this question and others would, no doubt, including young people I would be – I don’t think it would do harm. I think such a discussion can only do good.”
Gonsalves has shied away from leading such a conversation, saying that he does not think that it should be done by a politician.
In his comments, he hinted acknowledgment of the potential fallout for a politician leading such a discussion in a country that is still largely homophobic.
Ask how productive it would be for church leaders to lead such a conversation in light of the fact that some churches leaders “are accused of sexual misconduct, including being gays and lesbians”, Gonsalves said:
“The point about it is this: in the conversation, my dear sister, all of that comes out in the wash and if there is, as you have alleged, … one or more church persons in leadership who are gays or lesbians and they so identify themselves to help to lead the discussion, they may give a theological perspective which may be enlightening and which may help in sharpening or elucidating the discussion.
“… we have to talk about these things. And the politicians are the wrong people to talk about them, because as soon as you get there, people begin to play into one prejudice or another and begin to accuse people of this or that position.
“Once, somebody tried from the NDP side, said that they would have wanted the NDP to start the conversation and they made the thing of trying to drag me into it and so on and so on,” he said, referring to comments by former opposition senator Vynnette Frederick in March 2015.
“So, I said I don’t know why anybody wants to drag me into this. And I feel that the best, civil society, including the churches, I believe they are the better entities to have that conversation. At least, I genuinely feel so. What the results would be, I don’t know. But I think, generally speaking, it should be helpful.”
The prime minister’s comments came as he condemned a mob attack of two cross-dressing men in Calliaqua on the weekend.
Some parts of the attack were recorded on video and shared on social media and police say they are investigating.
Also, he was speaking at a time when the family of Spiritual Baptist Bishop, Ian Enoch, 50, prepares to bury him this weekend, three weeks after he was found chopped to death at a re-created Carib Village in Argyle.
Anwar Jack, 24, who has been charged with Enoch’s murder, reportedly told police that he killed the Christian cleric during a same-sex encounter.
However, some persons have raised questions about the man’s claim while others have rejected it outright, noting Enoch’s religious and social status.
It had long and widely been rumoured that Enoch, who was married, was bi-sexual.
His widow has rejected the claims about her late husband’s alleged secret lifestyle.
simply another cowardly cop-out
Psa 1:1-6 Which one will you seek 😕 God’s Council or man counsel
What is written in the Bible is already Set and seal and no carnal man or woman can change it.
God did not give any Divine Authorization to any man to change his words they are only to feast on and obey.
Please let PM knows there are two choices to obey or reject, and there are consequences to our actions.
No politicians, no Clergy, no Lawyers, no Minister, no Preachers, no Philosophers, no Dr this and that, no Opinions, Culturalism, professors, Feelings, Dogma, and Believes.
The Government was elected to guide Nation Spiritual, Morally, and to protect, also to create an environment for them to be happy.
You cannot hide behind man to start conversation on things that you should no is unacceptable to God and the Nation.
Yes these two words (choice and human right).That is for them to deal with.
Good leaders stand for what is right. The Lord is right above all is creation. 2Chon: 7: 14.
God is looking for” few good men to stand in the gap” will you stand up?.
In the countries where gay sex had been recognized, even celebrated, this process has always been lead by the politicians and the courts, not on moral grounds, but on the simple human rights and equality grounds this Prime Minister has preached all his adult life.
There is only one person with the authority and power to lead this crusade. That person is Ralph Gonsalves.
But he refuses to do so because he well knows that this would be politically suicidal.
David in the past he has been very close to colleagues who are/were gay!
im only here for the comments ….
The homophobia comes because we fail uphold that ” All people are equal…” This must be the take off point of discussion before we could open to entertain conversation on same sex marriage.
Life is a sacred gift and we all must tolerate one another rather than some believing that they have the power to abuse others because they are different.
When we reject or abuse someone, we are not abusing a homosexual, a male or female, we are abusing a child of God made in the same image as we are….
@Mr. Tessicahackshaw: The life style of a homosexual is an abusive life style. When a man want to penetrate another man waste exit, that’s is abusive and dishonorable and unclean. God calls it VILE AFFECTION. These men leave the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. Romans 1 vs 24-32. You and these men need to REPENT of your wicked desires or God may just speak unto La Soufriere and wake it up and burn up this wicked society like he did to Sodom and Gomorro. Nobody should beat these men, thinking that would change their life style. Only the ignorant would do that but these men must also know in clear terms that this abomination will NOT be accepted as being normal by God nor his Church. I don know if you are part of the Church of Jesus Christ but you cant be a part of that Church and support that which God calls abominable. Go read your bible;
1 Corinthians 6 vs 9-10- “KNOW YE NOT THAT THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? BE NOT DECEIVED: NEITHER FORNICATORS, NOR IDOLATERS, NOR ADULTERERS, NOR EFFEMINATE, NOR ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND, NOR THIEVES, NOR COVETOUS, NOR DRUNKARDS, NOR REVILERS, NOR EXTORTIONERS, SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Tyrone and Tony sitting in the tree
K-i-s-s-i-n-g!
First comes love.
Then comes marriage.
Then comes a baby in the baby carriage,
Lawd hav mercy… Vincyland in for a rude awakening..
The GAYS are coming! The GAYS are coming!
Almighty God condemns homosexuality – whether men with men or women with women. Romans 1:27 states: ” And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. ” Romans 1:26 condemns women with women intimate relationship. Homosexuality is unnatural. Romans 1:32 says that persons who practice such are worthy of death. This does NOT mean we should kill homosexuals. Murder is a sin. Leave it to God to judge and deal with homosexuals. Romans 14:12. Of course, like other sinners, any homosexual can change and live a righteous life in God’s sight as 1 Corinthians 6:11 shows.
What you are saying is that we should not uphold the will of God? We should allow same-sex marriage, etc. and allow God to punish these people after the fact?
The same applies to all sin. Should we turn a blind eye and the other cheek and let God do the heavy lifting of punishment?
Leave it to God to judge and deal with all sin while we should turn a blind eye? Is that your position?
COURTSHIP WITH THE DEVIL
If social commentator, ‘Fireman Hooper’ believes that is only people
who say things about other people that ‘…fire go bun,’ then
he has to think about this one.
He warns ‘…Don’t think ah bush fire; …It is Holy Fire. He might just be
unlucky, yes unlucky, to have to ‘…bun Cleric already identified’ to lead
discussions on ‘…same sex relationships,’ the ‘…abominable act of buggery
[Leviticus 20:13] ‘
Not sure where fellow villager (Colonarie) and Prime Minister Dr. Ralph
E. Gonsalves intends to lead these ‘…Men of Cloth.’
However, to suggest that they should take off the ‘…Holy Cloth’ to hold
public forums on that which the Scripture says is ‘…abominable,’ is to urge
them to have ‘…Courtship with the Devil.’
This could mean an unholy journey straight into ‘…Hell Fire.’
Those identified are religious denominations already tainted with ‘…buggering
boys and girls across the globe.’
PM Gonsalves is clever not to table a Bill in Parliament on the contentious issue.
Do you know why?
He is acutely aware of the founding Constitutional principle that states;
‘…The people of St. Vincent and the Grenadines have affirmed that the nation
is founded on the belief in the Supremacy of God and the freedom and dignity
of man’ [CO: 1979].
Then if God is ‘Supreme’ in a Christian society, why encourage the devil to change that
belief? Why ask the ‘…Men of God to disobey His Commandments?
It is well known that some religious leaders have been identified ‘…Political Pimps and
Prostitutes,’ but Fireman Hooper might just be waiting with fire.
Not sure why he would want to be in hell to light fire.
Well, it is up to the individual to give ‘Fireman Hooper’ the opportunity to burn he/she alive.
Still not sure if people will take a chance and give Fireman a chance to burn them?
Too bad that you don’t understand that there is a fundamental and irreconcilable contradiction between “belief in the Supremacy of God” and “the freedom and dignity of man” when it comes to homosexuality and many other things.
Where has respect for the Creator, who knows best, gone? As far as I am concerned, there need not be any lengthy debate on this matter. Respect the Creator and His standard which is Woman for Man and NEVER Man for Man or Woman for Woman. Such is not normal.
Define “normal.”
Normal: “The usual; what is expected/accepted.” I am mainly using the term from the standpoint of our Creator’s view on the matter. Hence, our Creator, who knows us best, our makeup etc, since He made us, does NOT accept homosexuality, and neither should we. I do not mean that we should hate, hurt, or kill homosexuals. We should hate the ACT of homosexuality. Of course, each person has God-given free will to live as he or she pleases. But each one will have to answer to God for his/her sin as a certain Mattias Anthony already mentioned. True, it may be argued that persons sin in other ways too but that does not mean that we should promote another sin, especially one that is so unnatural, contrary to nature as our Creator views it. Romans 1:26, 27, 32
I did not write this
UNHOLY WAR WITH GOD
Dr. Ralph Gonsalves seemingly wants the Clergy to be ‘…Advocates of the Devil.’
They must decide who they would like to follow and serve- ‘…God; the devil or man.’
Even so, it appears offensive to human sensibility and perhaps, the Clergy to even
suggest that they should start an unwinnable ‘…Unholy War with God,’ particularly,
for orifices (put mildly), specifically created for ‘…bodily waste discharge.’
Constitutionally, Dr. Ralph Gonsalves knows that in order to change the ‘…Founding
Constitutional Principle,’ recognizing the ‘…Supremacy of God,’would require
‘…alterations to the Constitution.’
This requires a ‘…two-thirds majority of the membership of the Assembly.’
With just a ‘…one parliamentary seat,’ this will be impossible to achieve.
Then there is a ‘…Constitutional Referendum.’ This also requires a ‘…two-thirds
majority of the total votes cast.’
Though there might be empathizers, since there are less ‘…gays in the population,
‘…pro-same-sex relationships, will also suffer doom.
Fireman Hooper, well, if he fails to make it into the Holy Temple, might just be there
to ‘…light and push fire.’ It seems that this kind of fire will not be Holy.
The Clergy that has been preaching daily, also knows the fiery combination -‘…Brimstone.’
This lifestyle should never be allowed in St. Vincent and the Grenadines.
The Constitution of our beloved nation speaks to our supreme believe in GOD.
Are their LOBBYISTS actively lobbying Caribbean governments with respect to this issue?
Are their Caribbean Leaders who are involved in this lifestyle?
Are their individuals on the ground receiving international funding to attempt to advance this agenda?
I am not afraid to state my position on the issue: Never! Never! Never!
I respect and appreciate my brothers and sisters as part of the human race, but it does not mean that I have to agree with this moral bankrupted and sinful lifestyle and more specifically, in our case, it is also illegal.
I am not afraid and shall continue not to be afraid. They have been trying to demobilize, destabilize and demoralize me for a long time. I stand firm for my believes and values. Never! Never! Never! I Say Never!
Ricardo Francis, Prime Minister of St. Vincent and the Grenadines in Waiting and in the
DO NOT BE CONFUSED
Do not be confused with the concepts ‘…Belief in the Supremacy of God’ and
‘…Freedom and dignity of man.’
In the former concept, it is reasonably believed that the people accept no other
person as the ‘Supreme being, but God-Creator of heaven and earth; …man and
beast and everything else in it.’
In the latter, the people are also saying that ‘…man shall be free and that their
human dignity shall be respected and shall be treated as reasonable creature in being.’
Even to a ‘Grade Six student,’ that is very clear.
The bible speaks to several precepts that man shall not indulge in, but man continues
to disobey. Biblical edification speaks to what happened to the ancient cities of
‘…Sodom and Gomorrah.’ A woman, showing disobedience, looked back and perished.
Leviticus 20: 13′ says what should happen in the event of ‘…man-on-man’ sexual pleasures.
It edifies that it is ‘…an abomination unto God’ and those engaging in it shall be put to death.
If man feels that it is ‘…his/her freedom’ to engage in such activity, existing societal laws
may deal with the offenders.
It has absolutely nothing to do with ‘…human dignity’ and it is not a prescriptive
constitutional right’ as many seemed erroneously transfixed to believe.
Persons so inclined, if attacked violently or threatened with physical violence,
based upon the treatment, though it may affect human dignity, the violence
perpetrated constitutes a punishable criminal offence.
Man-on-man sex acts are nowhere listed among the ‘…fundamental constitutional
rights, freedoms and liberties.’
None, therefore, may be confused over the ‘…Founding Constitutional Principles.’
The ONLY conversation, that the “CHURCH” need to have with those who practice the abomination of homosexuality is to say; “Young men your creator did not make you to burglarize another man’s anus for pleasure. It is quite a vile and wicked thing to do and you NEED to REPENT. Failure to REPENT and turn from such unclean practices will cause you to lose your soul. You may be struggling with this perversion but JESUS CHRIST has the power to set you free from this wicked desire.”
This is the ONLY conversation that the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST will have with the homosexual and all sinners. You need to repent. God have already spoken on this matter very clearly and there is no confusion. God said he made the WOMAN for the MAN. Any other thing is unnatural and not acceptable by God and his Church. The homosexual man may say that it is natural for him to want to penetrate another man’s anus for pleasure, but consider this; if I were to have a bucket filled with human feces and sat in the front of my home with a stick stirring the bucket of human waste and this is known by my neighbors, wouldn’t the society consider me to be a very nasty and unclean person, how different is this from another man wanting to play in another man’s waste exit. The homosexual desire is caused by an unclean and perverted spirit that have overtaken these young men. Only submission to the unadulterated word of God and the saving grace and power of Jesus Christ can set these people free from this wicked spirit. Some of these young men may say they feel like a woman trapped in a man’s body. That feeling is induced by the spirit of Satan, which his is a lying spirit but you must resist and do not believe this lie. God did take a rib out of Adam in the beginning and made the woman so there is no more woman left in man after that.
I do not support any beating of these men or women as you cannot beat the devil out of someone, it takes a willingness and desire for the person who is bound by these perverted desires to be obedient to God’s word and hate their sinful ways. This life style MUST NEVER be accepted by the society as a norm. They must keep this in their closet, why do they want to come out of their closet to impose this perversion on society?? Is it that St. Vincent want God to wakeup La Soufriere burn this wicked place up. Do not forget SODOM and GOMARRO these things are written for our learning. Young man the prime minister owes you no apology. YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR ABOMINATION, IN YOUR CLOSET and REPENT and then you can come out into the light and walk in the light. The Homosexual, demands to be treated with respect when they don’t treat their own self with respect. To practice this life style is to dishonor your own body. The scripture calls this the abusing of your body. Respect yourself first and you will be respected stop putting your pluming in filth and then ask society to accept it as norm. GOD FORBID IT!!